An interesting article, and as a parent I understand the need being addressed here very well, but honestly the idea of aligning yet another fundamental aspect of life to the needs of corporate America fucking pisses me off.

School isn’t supposed to be about daycare or occupying kids’ time; it’s supposed to be about producing better people.

The better solution is to fix society so that everyone doesn’t have to work so damn much.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/09/school-day-parents/569401/

34 thoughts on “An interesting article, and as a parent I understand the need being addressed here very well, but honestly the idea…

  1. Honestly if we could get them off later so they could get more sleep, I’d love that. But we’re in a position where we can handle whatever schedule we want.

    As a practical matter, school is very much daycare for lots of working folks. It’s a nontrivial benefit to working people with kids, and it’s kind of what makes so many charter schools so much worse. At least locally, the big charter (Basis) offers like bare bones education and then lots of additional activities a la carte. And no buses, and lots more load on the parents in every way (time and money) since there’s not really a PTO.

  2. < ![CDATA[Honestly if we could get them off later so they could get more sleep, I’d love that. But we’re in a position where we can handle whatever schedule we want.
    As a practical matter, school is very much daycare for lots of working folks. It’s a nontrivial benefit to working people with kids, and it’s kind of what makes so many charter schools so much worse. At least locally, the big charter (Basis) offers like bare bones education and then lots of additional activities a la carte. And no buses, and lots more load on the parents in every way (time and money) since there’s not really a PTO.]]>

  3. It certainly was daycare for me. I went to half-day kindergarten twice. Once in the morning, and then again in the afternoon.

    We do a lot of extra education and stuff at my house because I don’t expect them to get it at school.

    I’m with Paul, later would be awesome. But I too am in a spot where I can make most schedules work…that wasn’t always true.

  4. < ![CDATA[It certainly was daycare for me. I went to half-day kindergarten twice. Once in the morning, and then again in the afternoon. We do a lot of extra education and stuff at my house because I don't expect them to get it at school. I'm with Paul, later would be awesome. But I too am in a spot where I can make most schedules work...that wasn't always true.]]>

  5. The solution is to stop starving our public school systems, pay teachers decent wages, and for the most part letting the kids free range after school, or where that isn’t working have government support physical and cultural enrichment programs that are free for the kids.

  6. < ![CDATA[The solution is to stop starving our public school systems, pay teachers decent wages, and for the most part letting the kids free range after school, or where that isn't working have government support physical and cultural enrichment programs that are free for the kids.]]>

  7. The costs of afterschool care, which so many people pay, are exorbitant. Nearly as bad as daycare. These are the things a functioning government should be helping out, especially when the cost is so ubiquitous.

    Also, isn’t it only 9-to-5 because unions? So this isn’t conforming to the corporate schedule so much as the freedoms workers have been able to carve for us.

  8. < ![CDATA[The costs of afterschool care, which so many people pay, are exorbitant. Nearly as bad as daycare. These are the things a functioning government should be helping out, especially when the cost is so ubiquitous. Also, isn't it only 9-to-5 because unions? So this isn't conforming to the corporate schedule so much as the freedoms workers have been able to carve for us.]]>

  9. Robert Bohl The 9-5 workday is because of unions, but it’s the de facto corporate schedule now. And it’s not the now-almost-nonexistent unions’ fault that you can’t support a family on one income any more.

  10. < ![CDATA[Robert Bohl The 9-5 workday is because of unions, but it's the de facto corporate schedule now. And it's not the now-almost-nonexistent unions' fault that you can't support a family on one income any more.]]>

  11. John Powell That’s the short-term solution, to me. I mean, sure, America basically vilifies school, and that we so de-prioritize education is disgusting. But for me the fundamental problem is how difficult it is to support a family. I would rather solve that problem than continually extend the amount of time kids have to spend in various institutions just marking time until their parents get off work.

    And don’t get me wrong. I understand that access to daycare is important, and it’s a crime that people should have to pay out of their own pockets — basically being double-penalized for having a job.

    Also, readers here need to understand that I am also pissed as fuck that I spend more time making websites that help other people sell shit than I do spending time with my only son. That colors everything I feel on this issue.

  12. < ![CDATA[John Powell That's the short-term solution, to me. I mean, sure, America basically vilifies school, and that we so de-prioritize education is disgusting. But for me the fundamental problem is how difficult it is to support a family. I would rather solve that problem than continually extend the amount of time kids have to spend in various institutions just marking time until their parents get off work.
    And don’t get me wrong. I understand that access to daycare is important, and it’s a crime that people should have to pay out of their own pockets — basically being double-penalized for having a job.
    Also, readers here need to understand that I am also pissed as fuck that I spend more time making websites that help other people sell shit than I do spending time with my only son. That colors everything I feel on this issue.]]>

  13. I feel like this gets to first principles type stuff.

    We don’t have villages or extended local families any more so we need to fabricate that.

    We need to fill our adult days with… Something. Work? Something fulfilling. I don’t think we’ll ever get to a work free paradise.

    So if we want kids, and need a village to help raise them while we fulfill our adult lives, well shit. One of those three things need to change. Obviously the cultural conservatives would prefer a 19th century solution. But not the child laborer kind, the Little House kind.

  14. < ![CDATA[I feel like this gets to first principles type stuff. We don't have villages or extended local families any more so we need to fabricate that. We need to fill our adult days with... Something. Work? Something fulfilling. I don't think we'll ever get to a work free paradise. So if we want kids, and need a village to help raise them while we fulfill our adult lives, well shit. One of those three things need to change. Obviously the cultural conservatives would prefer a 19th century solution. But not the child laborer kind, the Little House kind.]]>

  15. What galls me is that this is a really easy problem to solve.

    There is no financial or logistic reason that we can’t have shorter work days/weeks, pay people enough to easily support their families, and provide ample quality daycare to those that need or want it. Workers are more productive ad efficient than they’ve ever been. But the fruits of all of this flow upward to people at the top.

    And they don’t want to share. Because they’re dicks.

  16. < ![CDATA[What galls me is that this is a really easy problem to solve. There is no financial or logistic reason that we can't have shorter work days/weeks, pay people enough to easily support their families, and provide ample quality daycare to those that need or want it. Workers are more productive ad efficient than they've ever been. But the fruits of all of this flow upward to people at the top. And they don't want to share. Because they're dicks.]]>

  17. Mark Delsing I hear you but you are asking for something 99.99% humans have not had outside hunter gatherer societies.

    Collectively as a society can now afford to live lives where we each are required to work far less. But there is a lot of inequality we need to overcome to realize that dream.

  18. < ![CDATA[Mark Delsing I hear you but you are asking for something 99.99% humans have not had outside hunter gatherer societies. Collectively as a society can now afford to live lives where we each are required to work far less. But there is a lot of inequality we need to overcome to realize that dream.]]>

  19. Oh I don’t know. I can think of a lot of problems that are easier to solve than wresting control of the workday and pay rate from enormously powerful and wealthy people who have used their power and wealth to consolidate the state behind their interests.

  20. < ![CDATA[Oh I don't know. I can think of a lot of problems that are easier to solve than wresting control of the workday and pay rate from enormously powerful and wealthy people who have used their power and wealth to consolidate the state behind their interests.]]>

  21. Right, I’m not saying that wresting control is easy or anything. I am saying it’s not like we’re talking about overcoming the light-speed barrier or inviting a perpetual motion machine. I can’t get angry about the laws of physics.

    I can get angry about a handful of people being dicks.

  22. < ![CDATA[Right, I'm not saying that wresting control is easy or anything. I am saying it's not like we're talking about overcoming the light-speed barrier or inviting a perpetual motion machine. I can't get angry about the laws of physics. I can get angry about a handful of people being dicks.]]>