I took his name down, wanting to file a complaint with the Pathfinder’s Society as this was official play. As soon as I looked him up, however, I found out he was the Lieutenant of Pathfinder’s Society in our area. So my report would go straight to him.

Fan-bloody-tastic.

So I retired from Pathfinder’s Society entirely and focused my attention on the amazing group of individuals that partook in Adventurer’s League every week.

Sounds like Paizo has some work to do.

“Honey, Let the Real Gamers Play”

58 thoughts on “I took his name down, wanting to file a complaint with the Pathfinder’s Society as this was official play. As soon…

  1. I think the article or an edit also said that Pazio had now contacted her directly. OMG what a mess though. Depressing. I am still surprised by this, even though I shouldn’t be. To be fair I don’t normally play with random people at cons though.

  2. Ugh. That kind of behavior is reprehensible. The only time someone should be rolling for someone else (or deciding what their character does) is if they’ve been called away from the table for an extended period. If someone wants to make “bad” decisions with their characters that’s their prerogative.

    I’m not sure how I’d deal with the excessive breast mentioner, but after the second or third time probably remind him that we’re not in a porno.

  3. Brand Robins Absolutely. I’m just saying that Paizo is in a position where they can do some policing — e.g., ban the guy for life — since this is their product.

    (I still feel like trad spaces are generally worse, though. I’m probably biased.)

  4. Mark Delsing Hearing it secondhand probably dulls the impact some, but IRL it’s hard to be confrontational. I try to do the right thing, but must admit sometimes I take the easy route. As long as someone speaks up though… the problem is all too often everyone at the table is either too scared to say something or too oblivious to know something needs be said.

  5. Yanni Cooper Indeed. Its gratifying to imagine one will stand tall, sternum forward, declaring, “begone, you cad!” with righteous reverbration when faced with such a situation in real life. But actual confrontation is daunting, and outrages don’t often happen cleanly and obviously.

  6. Yanni Cooper I have been running games at cons and organizing gamedays for 15 years or so, and I have no problem at all talking to people in that environment.

    E.T. Smith …and I don’t think it’s about imagining oneself as a shining knight. It’s about calling people out when their behavior is socially unacceptable, which is the norm in just about any other situation.

  7. Mark Delsing It’s great that you’ve got the experience and confidence to address issues so easily. The author of the article didn’t have that confidence, and just because I’m a guy doesn’t mean I always will either. Plenty of people don’t. Honestly if you DON’T have the spoons to stand up for someone else who is obviously having issues, pulling them aside and asking if they are okay, and if there is any way you can support them could be helpful. Just letting them know that should they speak up they have at least one ally is better than nothing.

  8. Also, you don’t always need to be confrontational about it. Like, sure, the imagination is just shut them down like a big manly man.

    But in practice it often works just as well, or better, to just set a firm but casual line.

    Like, I get pretty good output from just saying something like, “Man, can we have less boob talk” or “Hey, sorry, I couldn’t hear what she said and I’d really like to.”

    Lots of folks will respond to that kind of social signaling without hostility.

    And if they do get hostile, we’ll then it make it easy to know what their actual agenda is and how to respond. Like, take the person in the crosshairs aside. It doesn’t have to be about the asshole or being the sheriff.

  9. Mark Delsing Is it? Most people in my experience are disinclined to risk conflict, even verbal, and tolerate a lot of insult before they’ll call someone out. Especially if that insult is being directed at someone else. Extra especially if the person committing the insult is known or represents a social unit one identifies with. Not to say that calling someone out is anything but the right course, but it has to be acknowledged it’s daunting and difficult.

  10. I feel like there’s this false dichotomy being set up here, that either one can be a He-Man and punch misogynists in the face at the drop of a hat, or else one can be timid and silent and die a little inside — and those are the only options.

    My saying “One strike… and second strike you’re out” is not incompatible with Brand’s example of being non-confrontational. Just because you’re staying calm doesn’t mean you can’t — calmly — tell someone to leave.

    And sure, this kind of social navigation isn’t easy, but it also isn’t going to get any easier if you never do it.

    And bad actors are not going to get the message if they are never asked to check themselves (or to leave).

  11. You know, the first time I saw you bust out that X card at a gameday (is that what it’s called, Mark Delsing ?), I thought to myself “c’mon. Surely we can’t need this.”

    Clearly, I just haven’t been exposed to enough of the fucking weirdos in our hobby. The boob descriptions are so cringey! Jesus why?

  12. I mean… I could see certain settings where that kind of over the top lascivious description might fit in. Pathfinder Society at a con certainly isn’t that setting unless the game was advertised as being “adult themed” and possibly not even then. If there’d been a “Lines and Veils” bit at the beginning of the game and the boob obsessee had explained his desire for bosom focussed action descriptions AND everyone else had been okay with that…

    Also FWIW the only real requirement for “meta” advancement in PFS is games run… no need to be a decent human being … though depending on the playgroup at your regular digs that might preclude running large numbers of games.

  13. If you sit down to a table playing Ironwood, then maybe that kind of description is acceptable. Treating another player like… I’d say a child, but i feel like most people would be kinder to a child… is unacceptable under any circumstances.

    Even if you think the person is a newbie who doesn’t know what they’re doing, you help them out, offer advice, etc (which to be clear would still be crappy to do on a gender based assumption).

    The long and the short of it is, these men only understand “women” as an abstract concept, like an entry in the monster manual, not as fellow human beings. Any attempt to overcome that two dimensional understanding can only be met with disdain born of pure existential terror.

  14. Mark Delsing Oh yeah. But most of the time people would rather rationalize than admit they are wrong (even admit to themselves)… And who wants to admit they are playing a game with an asshole… Obviously so I don’t need to say anything. Knowing you’re doing it to yourself can help but by no means is a cure.

    On the flipside, fuck that DM… The only time you roll for someone is if they’re AFT or the results need to be secret … and even in the latter case we have thing for that called “passive perception”.

  15. so I don’t need to say anything. Knowing you’re doing it to yourself can help but by no means is a cure. On the flipside, fuck that DM… The only time you roll for someone is if they’re AFT or the results need to be secret … and even in the latter case we have thing for that called “passive perception”.]]>