Posted on
by

Thirty comments and two reviews, not a single mention of the use of “orient”/”oriental”. This is currently the #1 selling product on DM’s Guild as I post.

http://www.dmsguild.com/product/187283/Heroes-of-the-Orient-Players-and-DMs-Companion?hot60=1&src=hottest_filtered&filters=45469

58 thoughts on “Thirty comments and two reviews, not a single mention of the use of “orient”/”oriental”. This is currently the #1…”

  15. Matt Wilson At least it’s just a fan OGL product, not an official WotC one.

    (Aside: looks like there is a “shogun” class. I should write a version called “king” or something for the white PCs. “I’m a 3rd level king!”)

    I seem to remember Mearls saying that the idea of special rules for things just because they are Asian (or any non-European culture) was something he did not want any part of. Which hopefully means we’ll never see this kind of crap from WotC.

  16. < ![CDATA[Matt Wilson At least it's just a fan OGL product, not an official WotC one. (Aside: looks like there is a "shogun" class. I should write a version called "king" or something for the white PCs. "I'm a 3rd level king!") I seem to remember Mearls saying that the idea of special rules for things just because they are Asian (or any non-European culture) was something he did not want any part of. Which hopefully means we'll never see this kind of crap from WotC.]]>

  18. < ![CDATA[Shogun = warlord Yeah, I'm pretty sure that going back to 4e they start to try and make everything as culturally neutral as possible. Monk hast eastern flavor to it, but it's applicable, not allegorical.]]>

  22. < ![CDATA[Robert Bohl The guy is working on a "Oriental Monster Manual". Craig Hatler Wikipedia says a shogun is a military dictator. I mean, I get it, but it also seem sort of culturally tone-deaf.]]>

  26. < ![CDATA[FYI, I tried to engage the guy in the comments, but his response basically equated rules for Asian things with rules for Drow or Dwarf things, and then said "This product may not be for you." Oh, well.]]>

  31. I mean, it’s problematic there’s no doubt.

    Up to a point, he’s right–D&D says “dwarves are different from humans or elves in these specific mechanical ways”. There was a time when dwarves, elves and halflings were also classes, and there was no distinction between race and class.

    If you were playing a D&D game set in historical (or alternate fantasy historical) Japan, then you’d have Shugenja, samurai, shogun, etc. But to make a broad-sweeping “orient” pastiche is tone deaf, not only because you’re mashing a bunch of disparate cultures together but also because there’s so much imperialist BS that goes into the term “orient”. That’s where this goes wrong IMHO.

  32. < ![CDATA[I mean, it's problematic there's no doubt. Up to a point, he's right--D&D says "dwarves are different from humans or elves in these specific mechanical ways". There was a time when dwarves, elves and halflings were also classes, and there was no distinction between race and class. If you were playing a D&D game set in historical (or alternate fantasy historical) Japan, then you’d have Shugenja, samurai, shogun, etc. But to make a broad-sweeping “orient” pastiche is tone deaf, not only because you’re mashing a bunch of disparate cultures together but also because there’s so much imperialist BS that goes into the term “orient”. That’s where this goes wrong IMHO.]]>

  41. The problem isn’t the idea of a supplement for “asian stuff”, the problem is the language around it. Dwarves and Drow have never been labeled with terms made by people trying to rationalize racism with fake science, nor have they been denied rights based on that (they don’t exist, they’re fictional entities. They will never be oppressed in actuality, though they can be used TO oppress actual, real people).

    If we labeled baseline D&D languages “Common Caucasoid” and “High Caucasoid”, people would ask, “Uh…what is this game saying and who is the market it’s aimed at?”

    But, I mean, I also have to remember right now the KKK and neonazis openly march without much concern to the population at large, so this is probably par for the course.

  42. < ![CDATA[The problem isn't the idea of a supplement for "asian stuff", the problem is the language around it. Dwarves and Drow have never been labeled with terms made by people trying to rationalize racism with fake science, nor have they been denied rights based on that (they don't exist, they're fictional entities. They will never be oppressed in actuality, though they can be used TO oppress actual, real people). If we labeled baseline D&D languages "Common Caucasoid" and "High Caucasoid", people would ask, "Uh...what is this game saying and who is the market it's aimed at?" But, I mean, I also have to remember right now the KKK and neonazis openly march without much concern to the population at large, so this is probably par for the course.]]>

  43. It sounds a lot like the typical DIYer in the RPG scene. You take the system you play, slap some flavor on it and build new content without digging terribly deep into it, then grab art from Pinterest or Google Image Search, and wrap it all into a PDF and publish it.

  44. < ![CDATA[It sounds a lot like the typical DIYer in the RPG scene. You take the system you play, slap some flavor on it and build new content without digging terribly deep into it, then grab art from Pinterest or Google Image Search, and wrap it all into a PDF and publish it.]]>